What changes are needed in work cultures to ensure that people
with hidden disability receive the support
and respect they need? I think to build on that it starts around just having conversations about it.
I think we can talk about the measles somebody having the measles and that's no big deal.
But if you talk about somebody having sick days due to mental health,
it's something that we whisper about we talk around
and it's kind of like something that's dirty or something
that's wrong. Something that we've maybe bought upon ourselves.
So yeah start talking having the conversations about
it as normalize it. I'm here today with sort of two hats on one is
as a mental health part-time mental health commissioner
and the mental health Commission in New South Wales is very active
in supporting inclusive workplaces where people
can and are recovering from a mental health issue.
Living with a mental health issue,
but I also spent 10 years in the not
for profit sector after a long career in the public service
and and I have to tell you the not-for-profit sector is doing better than you guys too.
So I'll lay down a few little challenges because I think that's really where I can be of use today.
So the first the first challenge is to recognize that it's not just
about recruitment recruitment is really important
and we need to get recruitment,
right. But it's about the entire culture of your workplace
and it's about creating mentally healthy workplaces and respectful inclusive workplaces.
And there's lots of things to do
because the other thing is one in one in four
or five of your current employees has a mental health issue.
Now, you might not know who they are
because they're probably hiding it from
you and one of the things we rapidly discovered
when we turned it on its head
in Flourish Australia to create a mentally healthy workplace and inclusive workplace.
And we said we would give preference in any job.
We would give preference to someone who identified
as having a mental health issue as a result of that Flourish
Australia now has about 55 percent of their total Workforce,
which is not nearly as big as you guys of course,
but it's about 800, head count. 55% of those people identify
as having a mental health issue and they are supported in an in a workplace that is being built.
Not perfect of course, but it's being built to be a mentally healthy workplace where
people can have the conversations as Casey is talking about
because the first the first way in which we can support people
with a mental health issue is having the
conversation not making it something that we're frightened about.
Which means that all staff need to be skilled up to have the conversation to ask are people
okay? And not be frightened if somebody says no
I'm not I'm really I really need some support right now
and knowing what the tools are then
for reasonable adjustment
for supporting people for enabling people to recover at work
because the one thing we don't want to do is send people home.
We want people to stay at At work as much as possible.
We all know all of us in this room know that whatever the health issue
or the problem that people are having you're going to be able to get back into the workplace
and be effective in the workplace much more quickly
if you are supported to get well and stay at work.
What are the challenges for people with mental health conditions in applying
for government sector jobs?
I think one of the biggest thing was if you go to the I Work
for New South Wales website there doesn't appear to be a lot of flexibility
in the role in the positions that are being offered.
Like I can't see anywhere you know, we are an organization
that's  offering workplace diversity or we are we encouraged XYZ to apply for these positions.
They largely appear to be full-time positions.
They given area they don't say, you know,
this is close to public transport.
So there's there's a number of conditions that I would need to consider in terms of applying
for a job the conditions that surround the job which are not advertised in the positions.
The other thing is you have to wait until you've actually applied applied for the position.
To then get a contact number for somebody to support you, I’m not explaining that right.
For accessibility purposes
so you can type into into the system that you need accessible recruitment processes,
but it's not until you actually completed the application form that you get the contact person,
you know, so that doesn't really make sense. I think the other thing is,
I mean it's all about it comes down to wanting to identify or not,
which I'm sure we'll talk about at some stage.
How important do you think it is for the New South Wales government to have modified processes?
for people living with mental health conditions
and we've heard a lot from Ruth about
what a modified recruitment process looks like for people on the Autism spectrum,
but what might that look like for people with mental health conditions?
There's a number of ways that it can be modified for people with mental health,
you know, starting from having a phone interview rather than a
face-to-face interview maybe having a It's going to be different
for everybody that you know,
maybe having a person with you as a support person or a companion animal maybe,
you know being assess the suitability
and in different ways collecting evidence on the person based on their education performance
as opposed to having a an online quiz or what not.
Can you save my concentration can say that again?
No, I actually think that kind of covers it.
I was I was interested in whether you had a view on on what they call psychometric testing,
which is the the online testing and how challenging that might be for people well for anybody,
but particularly for people
with mental health issues. I think I actually did that on the weekend just
for some fun and it's you know,
the concentration like I just forgot
what I was trying to say to you in that short period of time the concentration required
to get through that is is challenging to say the least.
Mental health is so common in society and yet so hidden in the workplace.
What can we do to both break down the stigmas
but also the stereotypes are we actually getting any better
at managing mental health in the workplace?
And are you seeing any changes in the trends over the last 5 years
in relation to workplace based complaints?
Well, I did try and track down.
complaints coming to the commission the commission has only been in
place for five years and for seven years
sorry and I wasn't able to find a clear pathway to complaints
but I did look on the ADB's website and in their annual reports,
and certainly that's again
it doesn't have a high degree of granularity,
but the largest proportion of disability in disability discrimination
complaints and inquiries is about employment.
It doesn't say that it's the what particular form of disability it is talking about,
but I think they say it is certainly increasing
and I think that's probably a positive thing that people are
getting more confident to make a complaint
or make an inquiry because when it's a is a hidden disability,
I think people are often not going to feel confident about putting their head up in an
environment where they they do feel that they may be victimized
or bullied.
Casey, we've got a lot of managers and people managers in the audience today.
And I know when we had a bit of a chat you discuss the fact that in some workplaces,
you find it difficult to self-identify and disclose your disability at work.
So I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about why it's hard to self-identify.
And where you have felt comfortable to disclose your disability
what was different in that workplace?
So the first reason that I haven't in at times disclosures
because I've had this self defiance like is that a good time as you say and I'm like,
I'm not going to get unwell again, so I'm not going to disclose but obvious reasons
I just didn't want to be seen as a burden in the workplace.
I was fearful of being overlooked
for a promotion or fearful of not being employed in the first place.
So there's all those types of things that go on being bullied by the team
or you know mental health just has these negative connotations
and you know didn't want to be hushed or
excluded before even starting and so but when I have disclosed,
it's been really amazing and you know,
it's not just amazing for me.
It's really helpful for the rest of the team.
So for example, one of my triggers can be aggressive tone.
So somebody gets really passionate about something
and so they might get a little bit aggressive
because that's one of the triggers for me people if they know that's a trigger
will tend to sort of modify their behaviors now,
that's a benefit for everybody in the room.
Not just for me.
A boss might consider how much work they're giving me.
So we won't we won't get to that overload kind of section.
It will help in terms of you know monitoring how many days off I have
but it’ll also contribute to making sure that I can have the least amount of days off.
What advice would you give to a manager?
If they have someone on their team who discloses a mental health condition? Often,
you know, as people managers without specialist knowledge
we're a bit clueless. What do we do?
It is first of all, I think Kurt said,
you know about sort of confronting your own your own
fears because many of us have grown up with this stigma
buried in our own psyches and so it can be hard.
So it's important that there is conversation at all levels in the
organization about how to have the conversation.
So the first thing you say to anyone who discloses his thank you must have been quite hard
for you and I really appreciate you telling me that about yourself
and second sentence is how can we support you to be your whole self in the workplace?
What are the things that might be making it hard for you to do your job.
Is there anything happening in the team that that that we can help support to make things better?
And I think once you can have the conversation and not be not be anxious about it,
then it just it just starts to happen and and in workplaces
I think I didn't don't think I've fully answered your question about
whether we are seeing a change and I think we are.
We are certainly seeing a change. We're certainly from the mental health organizational perspective
we are really driving hard
for recovery and empowerment being about valuing lived experience every setting
and lived experience of any disability
but mental health and being on the Autism spectrum that you know,
they're really vital elements of the change we need to drive
and we are seeing certainly in the mental health space with seeing many more peer
workers employed people who are who are engaged bring their lived experience
purposefully into the workplace to support other people
and we know it is one of the most important ways to offer hope
and encouragement to people living with a mental health
issue is to have the person who is helping them
be someone who can say I've been there
I know what it's like and I've come through this
and I'm and and so starting to turn the conversation around to be about the positive
as I think other people have said,
you know, it's not about carrying the negative baggage.
It's about seeing the value that people can bring their knowledge their
wisdom about how things have gone wrong in the past
and how we can make it better.
And they are their full and authentic selves.
Just want to give our panelists one last chance to give a final message to
you as our audience what they want you to take home from today.
One of the most helpful strategies at for me through employment was having a wellness at work plan.
It was so successful in terms of the longevity of me working
in the workplace. One of the best things in terms of getting a
job was the person the place that I worked for
they had advertised within their advertisement, not within their advertisement
when I contacted them before I applied they gave me strategies
or ways that they could modify the interview process for me.
So them telling me up front how they could modify the process was
really great because I could then sort of choose
and modify for myself and without having modified my uni my uni degree
they sort of like I got it modified.
So it put me on an evening play it playing field without that
I would have been totally inadequate.
So if you're able to modify
for people with disability to they put them on an even playing
field you're taking away that inadequacy
so and oh,
if you look around your tables at least one of you is impacted by mental illness.
So this is important for everyone. Start the conversation in your own team.
Take one of the documents that is of use
and talk about how you can model in the organization the behaviors of being inclusive
and allowing people to to be open with you.
I work with Charterhouse who are a number three supplier to
Recruitment Supplies New South Wales Government.
Typically a lot of the work we do is temp work
and so speed to market is is critical
and from what you're saying here today that doesn't always align with
people that need different processes to be accommodated
for. Is there a way or best practice that recruiters can support your organization's to make
sure that that the pool of candidates were putting forward is
as diverse as possible?
Just one comment with having done a lot of HR stuff in the public sector over many years
and and in Flourish,
one of the things that we found really useful
for people with a mental health issue was to do the sort of assessment center approach
and and create create good strong e-lists
for and I don't know how much assessment center activity is
happening in the public sector these days
but assessment centers are a good way
as I think Ruth said of allowing people to show their various different talents
and contributions and giving people environment which may be supportive enough
for them to disclose and and then knowing that there is an opportunity that might come
but I agree with a lot of what Kurt said I think fast-paced jobs
well, I don't think they're very good for a lots of people.